imikhail
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The following hymns were added recently in the Coptic Church and were not part of the Coptic Heritage: Ton Seena Tolithos Eparthenos They were added in the late 19th century during the papacy of Cyril the 4th.
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No they don't. They belong to the universal, catholic Church, since we find them in all churches. And even if they are Greek but found in the Coptic church, why should we get rid of them? They are not foreign. They are Coptic. Period. First they are…
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Give me one reference to any hymn written before the schism. Only the Agbeya, Trisagion and the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) are before the schism. Omonogenis is controversial. Some say it was written by St Athanasius, some say by St Severus. If it wa…
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Ton synanarkhon, To litho and and the rest of these Greek hymns we are talking about fall into this category since they are witnessed in all Apostolic Churches: Greek, Syrian, Russian, etc. If this is true, why were they not part of the Coptic Chur…
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I am also tell you that there is plenty of references to these Greek hymns prior to 1850 in the Greek, Syrian, Russian churches. And if lack of reference is your criteria for removing hymns then Coptic hymns with no references before 1850 should be…
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I'm telling you that Greek was integral to Egypt for thousands of years. We can't consider the presence of Greek as foreign. Ok and Arabic also is in Egypt for thousand of years, yet we have not produced hymns in Arabic. Having Greek in Egypt does…
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It's the opposite. Tou dipno is a 6th century hymn. Eiparthenos was written by Romans in the 6th century. All the other Greek hymns are very old in the Greek Church, including To litho, ton synanarkhon, anixo, en iordano, enti genesis, etc. Hymns th…
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Other than some liturgy hymns, the Bible and the Psalmody, we don't have any references prior to 1850. Should we remove all hymns without manuscript reference to include these hymns? Again you are confusing the issue of modern Greek hymns with remov…
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Could it not be possible that hymns, like Omonogenes, were sung in Greece, Constantinople, Syria, Egypt, Jerusalem, grew in a tradition of their own without an abrupt introduction. Should we believe that one person artificially added Omonogenis to a…
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Could it not be just as possible that Copts sang To lithos, Tonsynanarkhon, evfrensentho way before the 18th century union with the Greek Church? No it could not be possible. Because these hymns did not appear in any manuscripts prior to 1850.
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Unless you can find a manuscript that says Bishop so and so added these Greek hymns, then it is only speculative evidence you have. Lack of evidence is also a proof. When we have manuscripts in our hands that date back to the 11 the century that do…
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And there is some evidence that this reconstruction was different in earlier centuries. THIS IS A SERIOUS CLAIM THAT YOU NEED TO BACK UP.
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What about ev,y? We've discussed this before. You maintain it's euke, but the same root word found in oueu,y is pronounced owaw shee. No, I do not maintain it euke. It is awka. I am sorry I cannot make the rest of your message because the Coptic …
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Really? How do you say Vnou]? By definition OB is the bohairic dialect. Bohairic manuscripts have it bnoudi. When Aryan efendi changed the sound "di" of the letter tau, it became nouti instead of noudi. There are manuscripts before Eryan Moftah t…
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Korsee El Kas This is a box, usually made out of wood, where the chalice sits. It is called the "throne"
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Since GB has become the de facto pronunciation within the religious domain, even though it has a dubious history, it must remain the pronunciation until EVERYBODY chooses to use OB. Until then, the least we should do is be intelligent about what Cop…
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Saying Jesus spoke Coptic, without any manuscript, archaeological or historical evidence is also stupid and unintelligent. Really? You need manuscript, archaeological or historical evidence to prove that a child growing up would pick up the langu…
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Saying God speaks one language is down right stupid and beyond unintelligent I have not read this statement on this thread except for the sarcastic comment by Kephas. Who else mentioned it?
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To say OB is our heritage, without defining what OB is, or showing the different pronunciation patterns within OB, is unintelligible. We know what OB is. OB is the true authentic pronunciation that is being reserved in our manuscripts before Aryan …
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To say Greek hymns are foreign and don't belong to our heritage, without providing any manuscript, archaeological, or scholarly evidence is unintelligent. Dear Remenkimi It is a fact that some of the Greek hymns that we have were borrowed from th…
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As Cephas said the Son of God's appearances in the OT were referred to as an Angel. One of the angels' tasks is to send a message. God sent His Son to declare His love to mankind and the language of the OT portrays this fact.
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In my opinion, If people forgot their heritage, they will be lost. Coptic is part of our heritage, we are not Arabs, we are not Greeks, we are not Romans, .. we are Copts. Language happens to be one of the elements that shape a people's history and…
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Incompleteness = inaccurate. You have been selective in the languages that particular individuals spoke. And the notion of a language being 'blessed' is ridiculous. The discussion revolved around the Coptic language. You made fun of Coptic, and I sa…
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Well what inaccuracies you are referring to?
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"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:2. Also look at Matthew 18:6 and Mark 9:42
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Oh thanks Kephas, but I like my original better. :D
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And while Kephas' comment was sarcastic, some people believe Coptic is the only sacred language. These people fail to realize they are more Islamic/Arab then Coptic. Only Islam believes in a sacred language. Of course I know he was trying to be fun…
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GB has nothing to do with Greek because the Greeks do not pronounce words like GB does. You need to read the book "Al Adella Al Rabteya" to understand the history behind GB. How can you possibly say you want to be truthful to our heritage, when you…
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And if you are going to continue to correlate Greco-Bohairic as a destroying our heritage, you are greatly ignoring history, anthropology and linguistics. I guess the answer to this issue relies on what is authentic. For me personally, an invention…