ophadece
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To the first question I cannot give an answer. Someone more knowledgeable. To the second, my answer is no. The Church puts nothing for no reason. There is a very good reason behind every piece of rituals we have, so why ornament already set rituals …
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Dear dzheremi, Here is a similar thread... http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,9784.0.html Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear JG, Someone told me about this book before, and I guess I once scrolled it down in a .pdf format. There are many mistakes, let alone stretching the Greco-Bohairic as he sees fit. My advice, get a better book to read. Oujai qen `P[C
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Exactly as imikhail said... contrast these afenten sa ehryi etaiounou ;ai and maren]ho hopwc `ntefareh eron qen paiehoou e;ouab vai With vai pe piehoou eta P[C ;amiof and ;ai te Ieroucalym tpolic `mpennou] Oujai qen `P[C
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What is missing is Mina adding Ascension fact: only one watos psali, as it falls on a watos day. There is one Adam psali that he mentioned that could be said UP UNTIL Pentecost (although practically speaking, this could never happen). He added that …
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JG, you are wrong. In Coptic the construct is always paikocmoc vai - tai`trapeza ;ai - paiavot vai - paiehoou vai - naiselet nai (as far as I remember meaning these two wed). It doesn't have anything to do with how it is translated, and indeed your …
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Grammatically speaking it has to be paikocmoc vai, and that is just another example of people not knowing Coptic but just singing it - ya 3ammy howa 7ad fahem 7aga? Oujai qen `P[C
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Yes Mina, and in some cases we have Adam tunes changing with ceremonials as well. Especially joyful tunes as is the case with verses of cymbals, difnar, and psalies. Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear imikhail, All the doxologies of midnight praises, matins praises (and of course vespers) are Watos doxologies. I haven't heard of Adam doxologies in glorifications that Mina refers to, but of course the prelude `pouro `nte ]hiryny is Adam... it…
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Yes Mina, I know it is found in the difnar, but as Adam intro to verses of cymbals, I am not so sure... give me the reference when you go home please Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear Mina, Hold on a minute, so you are saying it is actually not an invention chanting this fourth verse? OK, why is it not written in any of the older books then? What I mean is no single book mentions it (can it be ommissions "saqatat" in ALL the…
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af becomes `f so the phrase becomes `ferboy;in eron Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear Remenkimi, Your lack of understanding in Arabic keeps you going on a slippery slope. The word sha'anin is an Arabic word, not Copto-Arabic as you claim. In Coptic we use the Greek word wcanna. I don't know what the tune is named in Coptic, but …
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Realised my mistake just now. Yes books refer to them as Watos and Adam intro, but I guess only depending on days they are sung in... Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear Crazy4Christ, That is really a strange practice. I never heard about this before. Ouon ouhelpic is a "suffix" if you like added to some hymns (especially difnar (= antiphonarium) Adam intro - which happens to have the same verses) but not to th…
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Dear all, As Mina and Amoussa01 said. Watos and Adam refer to the tune, not the days of the week. It just happens that the church further divided those tunes into respective days as Amoussa01 rightly said as is the case with tasbeha (midnight praise…
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wcanna is the Coptic of hosha'na, and /osanna/ is how it is pronounced in Arabic as well. I guess as imikhail says sha'anini is a direct derivative of the Hebrew word (the origin of the word untranslated). Oujai qen `P[C
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Guys, I am sorry. With all due respect to every one, I completely agree with Forgiven-Forsaken. This thread is becoming more of a disparaging thread towards the church and the clergy and non-clergy members. I held myself back for more than a year, b…
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Thanks copticuser20, Tolerance and welcoming converts in the Coptic church is exactly the same (for some, or maybe many) giving up on Coptic altogether... well, sometimes it is not even tolerance and welcoming converts, but it is just laziness, and …
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Dear bigwayne275, You may speak to God muttering some words, but this is not what we the Orthodox call speaking in tongues. These are not tongues... they are mere murmurs and mutters to the Lord (I am not ridiculing again, I am just explaining our d…
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Dear bigwayne275, In addition to all the other members told you, I would like to add another small thing. We don't approve of the Pentecostal practice of speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues must mean tongues understood in the context of today's…
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Dear imikhail, Thanks for you response. I am not entirely sure if I agree though. Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear imikhail, I agree with all what you said in fact (believe it or not). But the only problem I have, which is also against Fr. Shenouda's views, is that implying loose syntax or structure spoils the whole hymn. For me it doesn't. Prose, or poetry…
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Dear Remenkimi and dzheremi, I stand corrected on the point of Indian English. Thanks... I got it. Dear Remenkimi, You reply to my quotes showing that you don't understand what I mean in the first place. I guess it is my fault because I don't have t…
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Dear imikhail, I was under the impression that ari'alin was composed in the 15th century when cantor Sarkis was present. I don't know if it was in 11th century manuscripts. Secondly, and more importantly, why do you insist on translation being spot-…
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Thanks imikhail. Of course it goes without saying that that is not my own argument, but I learnt it from my Coptic mentor. I am still learning as you can see... Oujai qen `P[C
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Dear imikhail, As far as I can remember from Remenkimi's analysis before, he implies that the hymns is Sa'idic with mostly Greek syntax, along the lines of the first verse of the hymns tenen. It is not totally obscure in terms of understanding with …
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Dear Remenkimi, Please don't insist on making things complicated when replying to me, as I can't reason with you and your knowledge. That is something with imikhail, but I personally ask you to make it simple for me when you are quoting what I said …
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Sorry guys, I misunderstood the thread's point. I guess what mabsoota says hits the nail on the head in my opinion, so nothing more to say here... Oujai qen `P[C
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Excellently said dzheremi and minatasgeel. Oujai qen `P[C