imikhail
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The altar is holy and commanding of our reverence but it serves a finite and limited use Lifeindeath What do you mean by limited use? The Eucharist offering is infinite in its effect. Are you equating the time of the liturgy to limited use? The al…
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When were they established - as far as i know the celebration of Christmas is a relatively recent holiday. I applaud you for researching. Christmas The Apostolic canons (1st century) command that the Christians observe the birth of Christ on 25th …
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What I was trying to portray is that there are many ways to fast, just as there are many languages to communicate with. In a particular Orthodox family, there is a specific primary language used (and sometimes a secondary language) and there is a sp…
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Coptic has nothing to do with Orthodoxy. Coptic was a pagan tongue and was blessed by saints of the old Testament like Moses and Joseph. In the New Testament by our Lord Jesus, St Mary, St Joseph, the apostles, the martyrs and saints. Yet, the lang…
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jdeacon, The problem we have with Coptic is Copts are ignorant of their heritage and thus lack a nationalistic "urge" to revive their language. As a result, Coptic use shrank to less than 10 minutes during liturgical prayers. To revert this peopl…
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It is good that we do prostrations as a sign of worship and repentance. We need to keep in mind that no prostrations should be made during the entire holy 50 days for we remember the resurrection.
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Remenkimi, Pope Shenouda supported OB through sending Fr. Shenouda to Oxford to do research on the Coptic phonetics. When he came back after finishing the PHD, Pope Shenouda gave him the third floor of the teaching center in Cairo to teach the corr…
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I disagree that these discussions are futile. At least they educate.
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But I would venture to guess that people who pronounce mathalan as masalan are probably more localized to a section of Cairo;localized geographically, or socially. And those who pronounce it as matalan are a different subsection of Cairo. This is w…
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Fr. Peter I agree with you. The problem though is the material of which the church building is being built. I served in a Melekite church which has marble flooring and a huge dome with a high ceiling that is inlined with a special material to refl…
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But don't tell people here that OB is scientificlly better than GB There is no science at all behind GB. It is simply speculations that are based on a false premise. So, yes OB is scientifically superior.
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That GB must exist in manuscripts to be real? Then Cairene Arabic must be fake. Cairene Arabic is a natural dialect. GB is not a dialect IT IS AN INVENTION.
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And yet you avoided explaining OB's pronunciation of awashe. No I did not. Awashy is not a Coptic word. What we are discussing is the Coptic word "awka" in OB and "evki" in GB. Two different words: awashy is an Arabic word of a Coptic one like when …
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A live language by definition is a language that is spoken on a daily basis and is used for communication. Did I really say that about GB? NO
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standard definition of any language: Open a text book. It's the one that is taught. Which book are you referring to? The books that exist on GB are already variants. lol
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one generation pronounced it /evkee/ way and their children in the same region pronounced it another way /evshee/. All I can say for sure is that in the current grammatical and standardized Bohairic Coptic (GB), it is only pronounced /evshee/ This i…
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I do not think we can definitively say OB pronounciation is /awka/ Yes we can. Because all the manuscripts (before Aryan's invention) with Arabic transliteration of the word had it that way. Even the Greeks have it with "K" The contention of Aryan…
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there is no standard definition of OB What do you mean by a standard definition. Please, present a standard definition of any language.
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Thank you jydeacon. GB, as a sociolect of the Coptic Church in Egypt and the diaspora, is the standard dialect. There is no question about. It doesn't matter how it came into existence. And I personally feel it is not as neat and enriching as OB but…
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What confusion are you alluding to? Discussing historical facts bring about confusion? I believe distorting the history and the authenticity of OB by presenting irrational arguments is what causes confusion.
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The arguments and the push for OB really only causes confusion of what is "right" when we truly don't know how things were truly pronounced. Of course we do. When we study our manuscripts, the Coptic ones, along with other external evidence from oth…
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jdeacon, "it [OB] its still only speculation and taking words that all egyptians use or names and taking that and applying it to an entire language." This quote is belittling the tremendous manuscripts we have and the studies done on them to reach…
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I cannot say GB is a variant for it was not a dialect to begin with and no supporting evidence of its existence in the Church manuscripts. It was brought to existence artificially by one person, Aryan Afandy, with a false premise that Greek best dep…
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Following your argument remenkimi, How can we explain the variation of evki and evshi, and the other ones presented in this thread,that exist to day in GB? I doubt it is a variation because of geography. BTW, OB says it awka because that is the wa…
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I believe the only way we can truly satisfy the converts and be successful in reaching out, is to have a separate missionary church that is capable of hosting the culture of the converts.
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ilovesaintmark, Thanks for the info. You can find the word change in the Liturgy of St Basil when the priest signs the offering right after the Thanksgiving prayer in the third signing before he puts the prosfarin. You can find the English words o…
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Just to make things more clear. The words "commemorate" and "remembrance" are reserved for reliving the minutes of incarnation, baptism, death, burial, and resurrection - the act of redemption. So, we cannot use these words for the resurrection act,…
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The letter X in either modern Greek or ancient Greek remained as ch and only in old Greek it was also kh. This explains and supports the idea that OB truly depicts the letters sounds on old Greek for we have words with X that are pronounced with the…
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I guess some missed my comments in an earlier post so I am repeating here. It MUST be understood that the ONLY place we relive the same moments of suffering, death and resurrection of our Lord is during the LITURGY. During the liturgy we are, lik…
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I did not say it is any less. I am just saying that this is how the ritual books refer to it since it was not mentioned in the original books. In arabic it is called tamthileya meaning that it was an addition to the original rite.