ophadece
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@Jojo_Hanna Ataibartanos is a bit similar to biweik - in the latter we address Virgin Mary in more verses than we do the Lord, but that's OK because we focus on the incarnation of the Bread of life. A similar thing in ataibartanos where we recite th…
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@Jojo_Hanna Ibn Kabar is spot on.. That's exactly what I mean.. They should not be said after ebnoudi nai nan but after the conclusion and as you rightly say not necessarily in the church. This is a new invention thing that during the holy fifty da…
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Strictly speaking there are no rites for glorification hymns during or after the liturgy.. Actually not during any raising of incense service.. They have a special rite outside of such services.. I believe ideally they ought to be done after the ves…
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@Daniel_Kyrillos Glorification has no place in the liturgy anywhere.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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I agree, yes
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Very well said.. Thanks @minatasgeel.. That is not to say that Arabic translations are all correct though.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Just adding to the mix here that whoever added the Arabic refrain has erred severely. Kiahk is not about Virgin Mary but about the Marian role in incarnation so to say that He took flesh from the Virgin is a grave mistake in the dogma of incarnation…
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OK @minatasgeel let's leave it there.. I don't have enough to say about this now.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Ah yes I see your point @minatasgeel, now I understand, but what I mean to say is that they do replace ajbeya prayers hour for hour.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Or probably you would choose to sing seven separate stanzas on their own.. I won't be surprised if that was the norm before boredom found its way to fight the believers and the authorities making concessions to relax the rules.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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@minatasgeel, We do have ten prayers in the ajbeya on a daily basis, seven separate hours including the veil hour and three services of the midnight prayer.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Hi @msmekhael I heard from an Italian religion scholar that the ajbeya was actually compiled by the eighth or ninth centuries, so in Coptic yes but after the Arab conquest.. However I will search for the answers because it is an interesting topic fo…
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@msmekhael After 50 years Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Wrong comment.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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That's why @minatasgeel is the best
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After the ajbeya prayers, Nicene Creed, as usual followed by Holy is the Lord of hosts and then the procession of the Lamb starts.. Normally from Bethlehem or in front of the altar singing whatever but alleluja oblations should be started at the ver…
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@msmekhael I don't understand what you mean by the question if that indeed is a question.. And yes the rites of replenishing the cup would be done after breaking the fast - please remember it is not a separate service, it is still within the same li…
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Yes @Jojo_Hanna I meant that we are saying the Kyrialayson's at the wrong time Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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I think that there are certain prayers and rites for the "replenishing" of the cup which goes through the liturgy of the word and then the faithful etc but I know it happened with me at least once and abouna shouted at me for being inattentive. I gu…
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That's very true @ShareTheLord.. I guess the main question was about any person but of course this makes perfect sense.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Thanks a lot dear @minatasgeel.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Oh and another thing as @Jojo_Hanna rightly alluded to consecrated icons in the church "ought to" have certain criteria to qualify as Coptic icons (I guess let me not dwell on this now because it is sad) whereas your icons at home need not follow an…
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I didn't want to get in this argument earlier because my English is not as good as other members here but you both are right @Jojo_Hanna and @ItalianCoptic. Basically in the English language an icon and a painting can be synonymous terms mainly I be…
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Yes @Daniel_Kyrillos, esattamente.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲁⲛ = ⲉⲗⲉⲏⲥⲟⲛ ⲏⲙⲁⲥ Ⲫϯ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲁⲛ = Ⲕⲩⲣⲓⲉ ⲉⲗⲉⲏⲥⲟⲛ ⲏⲙⲁⲥ But Ⲕⲩⲣⲓⲉ ⲉⲗⲉⲏⲥⲟⲛ just means "Lord have mercy".. I hope that is clear now.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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For the sake of precision Ⲡϭⲥ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲁⲛ both mean Lord have mercy on us, but it just happens that an Arabic expression was coined up for Ⲕⲩⲣⲓⲉ ⲉⲗⲉⲏⲥⲟⲛ and stuck to all such translations with all the other languages following suit as no one cares about…
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Thanks a lot dear @drewhalim. Very interesting.. Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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Ϯϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲕ ⲉⲙⲁϣⲱ Ⲙⲏⲛⲁ Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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I don't know the history of the development of the liturgy that well but I can contemplate and say greeting is not merely by a holy kiss after the Adam asbasmos. Abouna also draws the signs of the Cross on himself, the servants and the congregation …
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Dear @Daniel_Kyrillos, I thought someone else on this forum, and @minatasgeel could confirm, did state that the tune for behloj was actually lost and it was a recent innovation to fit the words on the tune of arebreswawin! Is that right? Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ …